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Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but hopefully some Catholics will see the Church's non-specific stance as an opportunity to explore their own explanation (hopefully making sound research decisions and come to the evolution side). Well, yes, this sounds very lollipops-and-rainbows :-), but I think their relative lack of a backbone to take one side or another is far better than taking the creationist side (i.e.-far better than many fundamental beliefs). I was raised Catholic and scientist at the same time--my Catholic school (grades 1-9) never mentioned creationism once and had a superb science and math program. I first encountered creationism in public school (grade 10), and I thought she was joking, having thought that creationism had dissolved in the Middle Ages and never surfaced again. (I promptly found out she was not joking.) My point is that Catholicism is notoriously indecisive, but perhaps it is something positive in today's climate (in the case of creationism), since it meets both passionate sides in the middle. True, they could make a public statement that evolution is correct, but remember that the Catholic church is a political organization just as much as a religious organization. What political organizations in the United States have decisively said that creationism views are incorrect, and incorporated that in their legislation? (Perhaps some of you may answer this rhetorical question, and I am curious to the answer.) I think that taking the middle road (probably inadvertently) promotes a lessening in passions, to make more logical arguments. I should point out I'm not defending the Church. I do not today consider myself "Catholic", so I don't have much to lose. Just wanted to help clarify for some where the Church might stand in the issue, and my own personal experiences in being taught science by Catholics. Just rambling.... Andrea On Wed, 14 Dec 2005, Michael Kishel wrote: > "In Poland there is also a breed of radical conservative Catholicism that > denies evolution" > > Even though the church itself has taken a solid position on this does not > mean that there are not dissenters. In fact if you read the full opinion of > the church they also state that none of the above are tenants of the faith > and therefore believers are not required to have a position one way or the > other. They also rather cynically add that Catholics are not required to > believe in helio-centricity or a spherical Earth either. Wikipedia has a > pretty good synopsis with the quotes from the popes. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_and_the_Roman_Catholic_Church. Pope > Benedict XVI has clearly done his homework on the matter. > > -Michael Kishel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kenneth A. Monsch" <kmonsch@biol.uni.wroc.pl> > To: <paleonet@nhm.ac.uk> > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 3:25 AM > Subject: paleonet Not only in the USA do creationsist/IDs abound amongst > Christians > > >> Unfortunately it is not true that creationism/ID is an American-only >> problem. I have lived in the Caribbean, the Netherlands, the UK, and now I >> live in Poland. Creationism was everywhere I have lived and I'm sure it's >> everywhere and everywhere it looks scary. It also seems to be everywhere >> where I've NOT lived, for example a former fellow student of mine is now a >> preacher in Belgium and once sent me an anti-evolution sermon to > proofread! >> In countries with a muslim background there is also creationism (ever >> received spam mails of Harun Yahya's organisation?). In Poland there is >> also a breed of radical conservative catholicism that denies evolution. A >> main spokesperson of this sort of creationism is now even an > Europarliament >> MP for Poland! The party he represents is becoming influential in this >> country-I can imagine them pressuring the govrnment to remove evolution > from >> education. Because the government itself is even more conservative than >> George Bush and has, if you ask me, no backbone, it would comply. Of > course >> we can't deny that the trouble with creationism and ID is far worse in the >> USA than it is anywhere else, but scientists everywhere should be at least >> aware of it, that the threats we talk about here are real. >> >> PS: in reply to Michael Kishel's earlier appeal I respond "I". >> >> Ken Monsch, Wroclaw, Poland >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Judith Harris" <harrisj@valornet.com> >> To: <paleonet@nhm.ac.uk> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:15 PM >> Subject: Re: paleonet Living Pterosaurs soon on display (S-P-A-M > 4.17/4.00) >> >> >> The Catholic church is behind us on this one--and, in case you hadn't >> noticed, it is a huge organization. And the new Pope just clarified >> that the Christian religion (a la Catholic) and evolution do not >> conflict. >> >> Only in this country do creationsist/IDs abound amongst Christians. >> >> Judith >> >> > > > -- "Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial "we."" Mark Twain
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