Re: paleonet Not only in the USA do creationsist/IDs abound amongst Christians

["Xavier Panades I Blas" <cogombra@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

I find that people are supporting more ID or any more dogmatic approach for 
two reasons mainly:

1. Either economic fear or fashion from the current precarious world 
situation

2. ID guys spread the message, evolutionist as I said and demonstrated many 
times not only no spread the message to masses, but, they close themselves 
to a clusters of elitists.



Respectfully,

Xavier Panades I Blas
55, Marksbury Road
Bedminster
Bristol BS3 5JY
England (EC)

http://www.acs.bolton.ac.uk/~xp1pls/
















From: Judith Harris <harrisj@valornet.com>
Reply-To: paleonet@nhm.ac.uk
To: paleonet@nhm.ac.uk
Subject: Re: paleonet Not only in the USA do creationsist/IDs abound amongst 
Christians
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:38:03 -0700

I am glad that I made my misconception that creationists are only a  problem 
in the US public on this list so that others could discuss  just how 
widespread this is.

I am sure that there are Catholic creationists/idists in the US too  but my 
point was that the Pope carries a lot of weight and we should  be glad that, 
for a change, his decree is on "our side". I think that  the evolutionist 
political movement should make more of this.

The problem, of course, is not people's private beliefs,  understanding, 
education and so forth but the political side of this,  especially that of

	(1) trying to educate our children in belief rather than in  knowledge and 
how to think in a rational and critical fashion, and

	(2) trying to politicize belief systems--and one belief system only-- the 
Christian belief system.

	Not only is education in this country being severely eroded but  separation 
of church and state is being consciously overlooked,  denied. If I am not a 
Christian, why would I want my child  religiously indoctrinated in the 
public school system? Why is this  not being explored in lawsuits? It is 
part of our Constitution--which  seems to becoming consciously ignored in 
our legal system.

	Just ask that question. Whatever happened to the Constitution and  the Bill 
of Rights.

	This creationist/idist argument is turning into a vendetta against  
rational thought of all kinds and undermining our Constitution. We  these 
two things gone just where will our future lie?

Judith Harris
On Dec 14, 2005, at 3:25 AM, Kenneth A. Monsch wrote:

>Unfortunately it is not true that creationism/ID is an American-only
>problem. I have lived in the Caribbean, the Netherlands, the UK,  and now I
>live in Poland. Creationism was everywhere I have lived and I'm  sure it's
>everywhere and everywhere it looks scary. It also seems to be  everywhere
>where I've NOT lived, for example a former fellow student of mine  is now a
>preacher in Belgium and once sent me an anti-evolution sermon to  
>proofread!
>In countries with a muslim background there is also creationism (ever
>received spam mails of Harun Yahya's organisation?).  In Poland  there is
>also a breed of radical conservative catholicism that denies  evolution. A
>main spokesperson of this sort of creationism is now even an  
>Europarliament
>MP for Poland! The party he represents is becoming influential in this
>country-I can imagine them pressuring the govrnment to remove  evolution 
>from
>education. Because the government itself is even more conservative  than
>George Bush and has, if you ask me, no backbone, it would comply.  Of 
>course
>we can't deny that the trouble with creationism and ID is far worse  in the
>USA than it is anywhere else, but scientists everywhere should be  at least
>aware of it, that the threats we talk about here are real.
>
>PS: in reply to Michael Kishel's earlier appeal I respond "I".
>
>Ken Monsch, Wroclaw, Poland
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Judith Harris" <harrisj@valornet.com>
>To: <paleonet@nhm.ac.uk>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 8:15 PM
>Subject: Re: paleonet Living Pterosaurs soon on display (S-P-A-M  
>4.17/4.00)
>
>
>The Catholic church is behind us on this one--and, in case you hadn't
>noticed, it is a huge organization. And the new Pope just clarified
>that the Christian religion (a la Catholic) and evolution do not
>conflict.
>
>Only in this country do creationsist/IDs abound amongst Christians.
>
>Judith
>
>
>

judith harris
emerita professor
university of colorado museum
boulder, co
harrisj@valornet.com
505-756-1813