Re: paleonet YEC&DinoBlood

[Nancy Meyer <marsglow@xxxxxxxxx>]

Amen.

--- Michael Kishel <mike@houseofshred.net> wrote:

> "Anyone
> who accepts the principle that the creative designer(s)
> is smart
> enough and powerful enough to work through evolution
> won't have a
> religious problem with evolution."
> 
> If I could just say something on a personal note about
> this.  I am a
> Catholic and the Catholic position is much different than
> these
> Evangelicals.  The Catholic position is that we do not
> presume to know what
> exactly creation looked like or how long it took.  It is
> the job of science
> to tell us that.  Four popes now have come out and said
> that evolution is
> true.  That does not mean that Catholics are perfect and
> it also does not
> mean that there are not dissenters in the church.  The
> official position
> also states that you are not required to believe in
> evolution and in a very
> cynical sort of way they also point out that you don't
> have to believe in
> heliocentricity or a spherical Earth either.  These
> issues simply have
> nothing to do with the true Christian faith.  As Dr.
> Campbell pointed out
> amazingly these Evangelicals have no problem lying,
> cheating, stealing,
> backstabbing, manipulating, ect. but do have a problem
> with issues that
> really have nothing to do with Christianity like
> evolution.  Now granted
> there is a specifically atheist point of view that
> Catholics would disagree
> with.  Personally I don't have a problem at all being a
> Christian and a
> scientist.  I have found in my career that if you believe
> in God then
> science is even more interesting.  Obviously it would be
> because the
> universe is incomprehensibly amazing in every respect. 
> If you attribute it
> as it is in reality to one omnipotent God then how could
> that do anything
> but strengthen your faith.  Anyway, one man's
> perspective.
> 
> -Mike
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dr. David Campbell" <amblema@bama.ua.edu>
> To: <paleonet@nhm.ac.uk>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: paleonet YEC&DinoBlood
> 
> 
> > > Definitely not.  They have a scripture alone world
> view and that's
> > > basically all there is to it.  <
> >
> > More of a "my take on selected bits of scripture alone"
> view.  Verses
> > to the effect of "Do not lie" tend to be neglected, in
> addition to
> > questions about whether Genesis was ever meant to be
> interpreted as a
> > guide to the time and physical method of creation (as
> opposed to the
> > scientifically indetectable purpose and power behind
> it).  It also
> > varies as to exactly what scripture is in view-there is
> > antievolutionism among Muslims, Hare Krishnas, assorted
> cults, etc.
> >
> > The 6000 year number (a la Ussher) derives from
> numerological
> > assumptions rather than from adding up the Biblical
> genealogies, which
> > are not complete, but the numbers in them come to about
> 6000 years.
> >
> >
> > >> Can they provide an independent scientifically-based
> date on the
> > >> 6-10 thousand year age of the Earth?
> >
> > There's a big young earth effort currently, billed as
> the RATE
> > project, to attack radiometric dating.  I don't know of
> anything that
> > doesn't just rehash old bad arguments, though there's
> always a chance
> > of some new bad arguments.  This may lead to renewed
> claims that they
> > have scientific evidence for a young earth.
> >
> > >>He used the Schweitzer paper, and argued that the
> fossil record
> > can't be old at all because of the beautifully
> preserved veins and,
> > there you have it, the evidence that dinosaurs were
> recently buried by
> > the proverbial Flood.<<
> >
> > The Flood also purportedly explains how things are so
> badly beat up in
> > the fossil record.  Amazing how much you can explain
> when you're not
> > constrained by consistency nor by reality.
> >
> > In reality, within a period of a few billion years,
> some things can
> > happen fast (such as preservation before decay destroys
> fine
> > structures).  In a six thousand year model, everything
> has to happen
> > fast.  Lots of things can't happen fast, due to the
> laws of
> > thermodynamics.
> >
> > > They [young earthers and ID advocates] both agree,
> however, that a
> > > creative designer designed the earth and all its
> inhabitats <
> >
> > The real problem lies in the meaning of "designed".  As
> stated, this
> > is a view held by practically all religions, and
> rejecting this
> > assertion is very close to endorsing atheism.  Conflict
> with science
> > arises from the insistence that this "design" had to
> take place in a
> > manner contrary to what the physical evidence
> indicates.  In the
> > particular case of ID, there is an insistance on
> miraculous gaps in
> > evolution.  (This is ID in practice-Behe and Dembski
> have asserted
> > that gaps in evolution are not necessary to ID in
> principle, but
> > practically all the support and rhetoric is
> antievolutionary).  Anyone
> > who accepts the principle that the creative designer(s)
> is smart
> > enough and powerful enough to work through evolution
> won't have a
> > religious problem with evolution.  Thus, the statement
> that a creative
> > designer designed the earth and all its inhabitants is
> not inherently
> > in conflict with the statement that the earth formed
> from debris in a
> > disk around the developing sun and all its inhabitants
> evolved in
> > processes dictated by natural laws.
> >
> > In fact, Behe apparently accepts all evolution from the
> origin of the
> > cell onward, a position incompatible with young earth
> and many ID
> > views, though he doesn't do a good job of repudiating
> those views nor
> > of substantiating his doubts about prebiotic evolution.
>  Ironically,
> > Darwin made practically the same assertion (first cell
> supernaturally
> > created and everything evolved from there) in later
> editions of the
> > Origin of Species, since he had no clue how a cell
> could form
> > naturally.  Behe thus does not disprove Darwin.
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Dr. David Campbell
> > 425 Scientific Collections Building
> > Department of Biological Sciences
> > Biodiversity and Systematics
> > University of Alabama, Box 870345
> > Tuscaloosa AL 35487-0345  USA
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 


All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.


		
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