Re: paleonet Re: time for gloves to come off

[baldwin <baldwin@xxxxxxxx>]

Isn't it time that we at least try to circle our wagons and get the 
likes of the National Academy of Sciences, NSF, NIH, USGS, (AAPG ????), 
GSA, all the learned societies, et al, et al, to indicate that we are 
all singing off the same page?

GSA has a Washington person who mostly transmits from Washington to us. 
How about those sorts of people transmitting a serious message in the 
opposite direction?

I come back to a point I made a long time ago on this subject: we have 
to transmit the idea that you cannot be selective about science. You 
take it all or nothing. You can't dissociate the bits you don't like.

Chris Baldwin

Dr. Lisa E. Park wrote:
> We live, at least in the US, in an age of religious fervor.  Our science and
> math education is weakening and the US is reported to be losing ground in
> its science and technology leadership.  I am not sure that relying on
> rationalism and reason is an effective strategy, especially since our
> elected leaders, such as Rick Santorum and Bill Frist appear to favor a more
> religious rather than scientific perspective on the diversity of life.
> While they are entitled to their opinions, they also control the
> purse-strings for our science funding in this country; and that is why I
> think that people are so concerned.  If they were all a bunch of crackpots,
> we could indeed, laugh them off.  But, they are crackpots with billions, in
> fact trillions, of dollars at their disposal, not to mention the future of
> our society in their control.  If the US education system weakens any
> further, our future generations will not be able to cope in our increasingly
> globally competitive and technologically based society.
> 
> I am not sure what we can do.  NGOs could work.  A massive educational push
> could work.  An economic depression in the US could work.  So could an
> effective mid-term Congressional election.  I think most of us got into
> science rather than political science because we really did not have to want
> to worry about this stuff! ;-) Oh well.
> 
> I might be wrong, but I think what most people (in the US) feel is shock and
> dismay.
> 
> Lisa
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: paleonet-owner@nhm.ac.uk [mailto:paleonet-owner@nhm.ac.uk]On
> Behalf Of BreandC!n MacGabhann
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 7:14 PM
> To: paleonet@nhm.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: paleonet Re: time for gloves to come off
> 
> 
> 
>>I think we will never make progress unless we get better organized
>>politically.  Ideally we would form an NGO who's specific mission
>>is to proactively and aggressively battle creationist movements.
> 
> 
> I disagree completely. I can't stress this enough, any indication at all
> that we take the creationist/ID movement seriously will ONLY serve to
> increase the public perception that there IS a controversy. We CAN'T get
> bogged down arguing details, because it makes it look like we have something
> to argue against. There's NOTHING to argue against, their movement is based
> on misquotes and nonsense. It's ALL PR, it's all spin. There's no substance
> to it. And treating it like there's something to argue, discussing any
> points with them will, WILL, be seen by the public as a tacit admission that
> we think they are worth arguing against. And that serves their cause, not
> ours.
> 
> What we could do, is set up a body as an advisory on science teaching in
> schools. Join palaeontologists and geologists with physicists and chemists
> to look at school science curriculums and propose changes. That way, we get
> to discuss evolution in the context of school courses with appearing to be
> involved in a debate with the ID movement.
> 
> We have to treat the ID movement as a joke. Laugh them off, wave away their
> arguments as nonsense and waffle. Dismiss them as not having understood the
> subject. Treat them as irrelevant. We have to make it look to the general
> public like we don't see them as a threat. Make it look like we pity them
> for their obvious misunderstanding of the subject. I'd almost like to call
> their bluff and ask them to put forward a course in ID just to see the
> content.
> 
> They have no leg to stand on. Let's not treat them like they do. This is not
> a science debate, it's a PR battle and they're winning because we're
> appearing to take them seriously.
> 
> Breandán
> 
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