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On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Robert Huber wrote:
> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:31:46 +0200
> From: Robert Huber <robert.huber@stratigraphy.net>
> Reply-To: paleonet@nhm.ac.uk
> To: paleonet@nhm.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: paleonet Origin of genus Globigerinellopsis and species
> Globigerinellopsis mitra
>
> Dear Peter,
>
> Thank you for your kind words, however I think it has to be taken
> quite serious when taxon names are used without reference and
> I have to confess I still worry a bit about the primary origin of
> this name.. ;)
> ...And I am still interested if anybody knows about the origin of
> the species and/or genus?
>
> In fact I see a big problem when taxon names are used without
> systematic section explaining the authors taxonomic concept.
> In the particular example it would mean that the data referrring to
> the G. mitra used in this paper is useless, unless it cannot be
> clarified which taxon was meant - the experiment cannot be repeated.
Dear Robert,
thankyou for the nice reply:
Referring to this and looking a little bit ahead (= the to do list):
1) The DSDP volumes ("Initial Reports", the mentioned DSDP 74) contain
in many cases (not in all), particularly for the pioneer days,
taxonomic sections.
DSDP data are also in many (not in all) cases digitally available.
In case it is an issue, I can, within the next 5-7 days, look this up,
starting with DSDP Vol. 74, some of the appendices might provide the
answer.
I am aware that sometimes the DSDP Volume are locked away, particularly
during holiday time, thus it is a polite question.
************
2) Replication of experiments:
In this case it might be replicable:
I don t know which (possibly East Coast repository) it is: For
this question the primary material might be inspected:
(e.g. inspecting both G. mitra from Leg 74 and "original" G. mitras
from other cores / taxonomic descriptions.
***********
3) Now looking ahead (considerably summarized, addressing your
"experiment
question" and resulting future perspectives, also for the field in
general):
Many initiatives need faunal/floral lists, ideally counted, at least
estimated.
The well-known and renowned paleontologists who engaged in the DSDP
do not exist in copy.
Some years ago we had a PhD project (started) to do (formulated
compact) "seismics without filtering" both with the the aim to process
seismic lines and with the aim to apply this to related questions
e.g. (again formulated ultra compact) to process cores destruction-free
with the objective to determine forams semi-automatically (and after
the holotypes exist to determine them automatically, e.g. assessing
high-res paleotemperature time-series from the DSDP/ODP cores
that are in the repositories).
In case it is a matter of interest we can aim at it at a low level and
do the production-testing then within the community.
I am aware that we have to go well beyond one micrometer in resolution.
I am also aware about the data-quantities that will accumulate.
If we have a restart, first at a low level, e.g. "comparable to a hobby"
we might have in, estimated 6+ years, something that is running.
In case anybody is astonished about above mixing of "seismic lines"
with "core analysis": To get a method running one should do it
with data and wavelengths for which formula exist. If later, when
the method runs, one considers also electromagnetical waves, one has
a framework into which it can be inserted.
We started in 1986 with the objective to reconstruct Neogene
environments
(considering at that time that the forthcoming climate is more likely
a warmer than a colder).
The question is solved when good reconstructions, marine and terrestrial
for the last 10 Ma exist (see IGCP341 and resulting tasks) and
when with a coupled GCM, first 10 ka, then 120 ka, then 400 ka,
then 1.2 Ma then possibly more (at T42 resolution) can be run
such that "all the ticks of the time-series" are met
(first Vostok, then the others).
Right now the emphasis is on a fast CAM/CSM with sometimes
an acceleration of 5000% already reached (more needed, the way how to
achieve this is known, e.g. implementing what is tested also elsewhere).
Progress exists but it is not as far as planned.
If both is done in the future, e.g. also your "experiment question"
addressed, much of the "synonym discussions" will, at least
within the Neogene (in the sense of the new definition) disappear
(based on digital holotypes).
It is a little bit a look ahead. It is of course now within our reach
and once a fast CSM will exist it will be addressed.
=== > Those who are interested in the topic are welcome with a
cooperation based on data-exchange. It is however - meant as polite
warning - a topic that is difficult to publish as the results will
show up as software and results based on this.
>
> best regards,
> Robert
>
Best regards
Peter
>
>
>
>
>> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: paleonet-owner@nhm.ac.uk [mailto:paleonet-owner@nhm.ac.uk]Im
>> Auftrag von Peter Paul Smolka
>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 13. Juli 2006 11:06
>> An: PaleoNet
>> Betreff: Re: paleonet Origin of genus Globigerinellopsis and species
>> Globigerinellopsis mitra
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Robert Huber wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:24:11 +0200
>>> From: Robert Huber <robert.huber@stratigraphy.net>
>>> Reply-To: paleonet@nhm.ac.uk
>>> To: PaleoNet <PaleoNet@nhm.ac.uk>
>>> Subject: paleonet Origin of genus Globigerinellopsis and species
>>> Globigerinellopsis mitra
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Recently I was playing with the CHRONOS tool which frequently
>>> sends database queries to my TaxonConcept toy. One of the
>>> 'demo taxa queries' I received many times was for the taxon
>>> Globigerinoides mitra, which is fine..
>>>
>>> When comparing the TaxonConcept search results with those of
>>> CHRONOS I found that CHRONOS has listed a synonym called
>>> 'Globigerinellopsis mitra. '
>>>
>>> I never heard of this Genus, which doesn't mean too much ;),
>>> but I got curious and tried to find out where the name comes
>>> from using several databases with little success.
>>>
>>> The only hits I got was from literature databases was the
>>> article:
>>> Boersma, A. 1984 Cretaceou-{Tertiary planktonic foraminiferas
>>> from the south-eastern Atlantic, Walvis Ridge area, Deep Sea
>>> Drilling Project Leg 74. Initial Rep. DSDP 74,501-523
>>> But here the name is only used in relative abundance counts a
>>
>> Dear Robert,
>>
>> within the DSDP (= not ODP and not IODP) several species have been
>> identified only by one author - e.g. those being familiar with
>> the basin/ocean that was drilled.
>>
>> Referring to that some authors working on Neogene paleotemperatures
>> excluded in their software all species from the DSDP database (first
>> the DSDP paleontology tape, then the CD now the databases) that
>> fulfil above criterion.
>>
>> I think, amongst others, possible K. Romine or Moore and Lombari
>> did so.
>>
>> In case you aim at optimizing pangae (or others Chronos, etc.) you
>> might introduce a "synonym option".
>>
>> This option might in the paleoecologica processing consider for
>> example abve G. mitra as being the mentioned synonym.
>>
>> I did it this way for example for "typing-error synonyms", e.g.
>> replacing some Neogloboquadrina achyderma by Neogloboquadrina pachderma
>> with (S) and (D) as appropriately.
>>
>> To conclude:
>>
>> (1) I would not be too worried about the primary origin of the name.
>> (2) I would include an option to use the synonym instead, e.g. leave
>> the original database as it is, but software analzing watermasses
>> might consider synonyms.
>>
>> Above mentioned "DSDP-phenomenon" (species observed only by one
>> author) is not a single case.
>>
>>
>>> sytematic section is missing.
>>> Other hits lead me to the PANGAEA database where other species
>>> count data from A. Boersma are listed.
>>>
>>> I am still wondering where the genus name comes from (is it a
>>> valid name?)and if Globigerinellopsis mitra is really a synonym
>>> for Globigerinoides mitra...
>>> Maybe someone can direct me to some reference(s)?
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Robert
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>>
>>> P.S:
>>> Here are some links to CHRONOS/TaxonConcept/Pangaea if you
>>> want to test the queries yourself:
>>>
>>> http://portal.chronos.org/gridsphere/gridsphere?cid=xqe_beta
>>> http://taxonconcept.stratigraphy.net
>>> http://www.pangaea.de/PangaVista
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Robert Huber
>>> WDC-MARE / PANGAEA - www.pangaea.de, www.wdc-mare.org
>>> Stratigraphy.net - www.stratigraphy.net
>>> _____________________________________________
>>> MARUM - Institute for Marine Environmental Sciences (location)
>>> University Bremen
>>> Leobener Strasse
>>> POP 330 440
>>> 28359 Bremen
>>> Phone ++49 421 218-65593, Fax ++49 421 218-65505
>>> e-mail rhuber@wdc-mare.org, robert.huber@stratigraphy.net
>>>
>>>
>
>
**********************************************************************
Dr. Peter P. Smolka
University Muenster
Geological Institute
Corrensstr. 24
D-48149 Muenster
Tel.: +49/251/833-3989 +49/2533/4401
Fax: +49/251/833-3989 +49/2533/4401
E-Mail: smolka@uni-muenster.de
E-Mail: PSmolka@T-Online.de
**********************************************************************
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