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Re: paleonet Faith and skepticism



Title: Re: paleonet Faith and skepticism
To grossly oversimplify, the point at which American creationists chose the
"wrong track" was approximately 1955-1965.  At this time, two related but
very different books were published.

The "right track" book was Bernard Ramm's "The Christian View of Science
and Scripture (1955)," which suggested several possible interpretations of
Genesis that could be reconciled with modern science.  The modern science
part was heavily informed by Larry Kulp, a pioneer of isotope geochemistry
and geochronology at Columbia and a Wheaton College grad.

I hadn't heard of Ramm's book and so did what I usually do these day.  I typed his name into Google.

The first return is a 1979 interview with Ramm by Walter Hearn, a representatiove of the American Scientific Affiliation (Science in the Christian Perspective).

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1979/JASA12-79Hearn.html

Here's the crux (pun intended):

Ramm: What disturbs me the most about the most rigid creationist views is that they drive Christians and scientists millions of miles apart. Some of them amount to a total denial of anything significant in geology. There's a unity to the sciences and the borders of the sciences overlap. You can't just pick out geology and say, "Science is all wrong there, but it's right in all these other territories." Take the use of atomic materials, high-speed atomic particles, X rays and so on; going to the doctor to get an X ray is one piece of the science, but it spills over into geology. It's odd if you have to say that almost 100% of the world's geologists are wrong, but once you get away from geology the scientists are pretty right. That seems to me to be something creationists have to come to terms with.

Hearn: The most energetic special creationists would argue that essentially all of science has to be restructured. Do you think there's any possibility of doing that?

Ramm: There's a certain pragmatism to science. If you have to restructure science, you have to deny an enormous amount of success up to this point. Take the sophistication of going to the moon and back. However right or wrong one thinks science is, it did do that. Think of the number of successful surgeries that go on in hospitals every day. And technology in industry. So there is enormous pragmatic weight in favor of a lot of scientific theory. Even if you could restructure, that wouldn't mean you're going to totally overturn. Maybe you're going to suggest some new basic principles.

Hearn: I imagine you've heard about astrophysicist Robert Jastrow and his admission that the structure of the whole universe is so remarkable that people who look at that structure have to acknowledge that they face mystery. I've seen a quote of his to the effect that when the astronomers have learned all they can, "when they have crossed over the hill they find that the theologians were there ahead of them thinking about these things."

Ramm: Yes, and the "Big Bang" theory has picked up new prestige. But I've talked to scientists who don't believe anything, and I find that they are not impressed with that kind of reasoning. Their basic response is, "Yes, there's a crook in the road, and it appears that yes, there's a God who is doing this, but we're going to do some more experiments and ten years from now we won't look at it that way. So we'll just sweat this one out until we find out the answer later on." And when it comes to the "argument from design," I heard a scientist make an absurd statement that at least showed his mentality. He said that if something appeared to be designed with a probability of a billion to one, he still wouldn't believe it was designed. So you have that kind of tough attitude in a lot of scientists. They won't believe anything but what they empirically know, and if there's a puzzle they just say, "Well, we'll sweat it out and we'll eventually solve the puzzle."

Hearn: Isn't that why the conflict is really a philosophical one? I mean, there's a scientific way of looking at the data and a religious way of looking at the data. There are two ways to do it, and you have to decide which way to look at it.

Ramm: What had in mind is this: sometimes Christians think that if you come to the place where we are now, with the Big Bang theory picking up what I gather is experimental verification, with discovering the "hisses of the original electrons"-or whatever the new findings amount to-they think all scientists should capitulate, that they are forced to believe in God. But scientists can be tough characters. They don't capitulate that easily.

Hearn: Philosophically, can't you say that that's a basic difference between the scientific outlook and the religious outlook? In science there's nothing that can force you to believe. If there were, you wouldn't need a religious outlook, because you'd get it all out of science.

Bill
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
William P. Chaisson
Adjunct Assistant Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Rochester
Rochester, NY  14627
607-387-3892