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Re: paleonet Re: Ken's comments



Title: Re: paleonet Re: Ken's comments
Peter,

I think your question about rationality is a good one I will have to try and
find time to look into it. With regard to emotions and belief I think
emotions need to be kept strictly under control but I am not sure that we
can think at all without belief. To think it seems to me that we need at
least some idea of the rules of logic and mathematics as has to be built
into computers. How could we get that without believing? I think that
believing in something that we are told or that we have observed is how
thinking starts. Faith as I see it is something that grows out of experience
with an object or an idea.

Faith is something arises due to a lack of experience with an object or idea, or at least a failure to understand experience.  Faith is generally a substitute for a "real" explanation.  This is my understanding of the view of the scientific community.  Indeed, it is my understanding of the perspective of Modernism. (A discussion of Post-modernism has no place on a paleontology list.)

The Creationist camp often insists that evolutionists must have "faith" in order to "believe in" natural selection as the engine of evolution.  In practice some scientists may accidentally speak of or consider evolutionary theory as if it were dogma, but in fact evolutionary theory is as dynamic as religious dogma is static.
 I think that believing grades into faith and faith into knowing. Knowing is the end result of a progression but I don't think we can ever eliminate an element of each.

The history of the development of science out of faith through the 16th to 19th centuries might look this way from the perspective of the 21st century, but I don't think that's how it happened.  I have heard the phrase "coming to know God" as a way of expressing an increase in depth of faith, but it has nothing to do with an increase in knowledge of Nature.

A failure to eliminate faith from knowing is just that, a failure.

I think that people who call themselves believers are that in name only. I
think that small children are real believers. I think they tend to accept
what they hear and see without objection and that makes learning easy.

My experience with children is entirely different.  Children are the original skeptics; they ask a lot of questions and are really good at spotting inconsistencies in a narrative.

They will only accept things "on faith" if they sense that by doing so they will get the approval of an authority that they respect.  This is called indoctrination and doesn't have anything to do with real learning.  In fact, it gets in the way of real learning.

The brouhahas in Dover, PA and Georgia are all about parents freaking out because their own indoctrination of their children is being contradicted by the schools' science curricula.

I think being skeptical makes learning difficult and slower.

Being skeptical is the only thing that allows us to build real knowledge, its structure, dynamics and content.

 Small children don't worry too much about testing their ideas.

This is all that children do.  Or at least it used to be when we let them go out and play.

It might be a small point but I didn't mean to say that God created through
evolution but that evolution is the inevitable result of His continuing
creation work. That He is continuing this work fits with the Lord statement
that "The Farther worketh hitherto" John 5: 17.

If you don't accept that the Bible is the word of God (and I don't), then this is simply circular logic.  Whether God has any hand in evolution is of no interest to evolutionary theorists since the existence of God cannot be proven.  Proving the existence of God is of no interest since (1) if one turns out to exist and is all-powerful, then that makes all further inquiry pretty pointless and (2) if one turns out to exist and has to follow the rules of physics, then all you've got is the 'god of the gaps'.

Sincerely,
Bill


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
William P. Chaisson
Adjunct Assistant Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Rochester
Rochester, NY  14627
607-387-3892