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Nancy and all,
Your offer is very generous but, without any intention to criticise or to
discourage, your generosity points out another problem: As long as there are
sponsors willing to pay, the prices will not drop. To the contrary, in this
case the publishers will be encouraged to rise the prices a little bit more.
I do not think individual contributions make the difference here but large
and continuous subventions do. Example, at present the Catalan government
pays the access to a number of ISI Web of Science functions for all Catalan
University. On the one hand I am really glad they do, but on the other
1) the government recently changed and there are rumors that the 3 year
contract might not be renewed, and
2) it does not press the publishers to drop prices but this is what we
really need and want.
Cheers,
Niko
> I have a suggestion. As an attorney with interest in
> paleontology, and the child of two librarians, I for one
> would be happy to donate money to my alma mater to purchase
> certain journals. I couldn't donate much, but with the
> enormous interst out there in dinosaurs, why not start a
> public drive to buy journals for the various schools? I'd
> be willing to donate time to start this idea going. And my
> daughter is a computer whiz and an anthropology student -
> she'd probably help, also.
> - Nikolaus Malchus <n.malchus@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> > In general I think its worth to discuss any possibility.
> > However, I see various problems:
> >
> > 1) To my knowledge, medical researches often get paid,
> > not by the journals
> > perhaps. There are economic interests behind, worth
> > billions of dollars. So
> > there is already a disequilibrium depending on the
> > research field with more
> > or less financial back-up. In our disciplines it's the
> > other way round:
> > Commercial journals often publish without page charge
> > while institutional
> > journals often ask us to pay (at least for longer papers,
> > 8-10 printed pages
> > up, which appears to have become a standard).
> >
> > 2) Within our disciplines there is a disequilibrium in
> > scientific interest,
> > also by the public. Papers from colleagues working on
> > dinosaurs, flight
> > evolution (as we can see in this list), anthropological
> > (hominoid evolution)
> > issues, or genetics get a much wider distribution than
> > 'boring' papers on
> > taxonomy.
> >
> > If we try to press the professional journals, they will
> > probably
> > cherry-picking the papers and many of us won't be able to
> > publish there.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Niko
> >
> > > What about a more equitable model of compensation to
> > control market
> > > forces?
> > > Scientists get paid to publish in the popular science
> > world. Why not by
> > > professional journals? Prestige and career advancement
> > are not enough of
> > > a
> > > reward. Do you see novelists paying publishers and
> > Broadway stars paying
> > > producers? Scientists already do the most critical
> > work for the
> > > commercial
> > > journals, the research, writing, and reviews. Perhaps
> > universities could
> > > bargain with commercials, insisting on compensation for
> > contributions by
> > > faculty, a price break, or no-deal.
> > >
> > > Is there some reason the scientific community wants to
> > keep personal
> > > financial reward out of the professional publication
> > realm? Would it be
> > > corrupting?
> > >
> > > - SY
> > >
> > > Sylvia Hope
> > >
> > > Ornithology & Mammalogy
> > >
> > > California Academy of Sciences
> > >
> > > 875 Howard St.
> > >
> > > San Francisco, CA 94103
> > >
> > > (415) 321-8379
> > >
> > > shope@calacademy.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: paleonet-owner@nhm.ac.uk
> > [mailto:paleonet-owner@nhm.ac.uk] On Behalf
> > > Of
> > > Jere H. Lipps
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:41 PM
> > > To: paleonet@nhm.ac.uk; paleonet@nhm.ac.uk
> > > Subject: paleonet The threat of the Publishing Crises
> > to Paleontology and
> > > to
> > > the Commercial Publishers themselves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks to those who thanked me for bringing this matter
> > together. I
> > > didn't
> > > do it, however. It came from the University of
> > California, whose bill to
> > > the
> > > commercial publishers is in the millions of
> > dollars/year and is causing
> > > the
> > > cutting of many books and other journals. We have to
> > fight to keep paleo,
> > > some geology and systematic journals. I have noticed
> > that if I fail to
> > > respond in a couple of days to the email list sent to
> > me by the librarians
> > > (like all I have to do is read a thousand emails and
> > delete another 2-3
> > > thousand spam-mails), they will cancel the journals for
> > lack of input.
> > > Trying to get journals restored is almost more trouble
> > than it is worth.
> > >
> > > I see benefits from commercial publication of our
> > journals--they do a nice
> > > job, they do whatever it takes to get the science out,
> > they do it without
> > > additional costs to societies, they do it without
> > additional burden on
> > > scientists who should have better things to do than run
> > journals, and they
> > > do
> > > it on-line and, I am sure, will soon be posting papers
> > on-line as soon as
> > > they are reviewed favorably. We pay profits on
> > everything else we use in
> > > our
> > > work from Brunton compasses and rock picks to our
> > vehicles, computers and
> > > storage cabinets without complaints. The difference is
> > that no matter
> > > what
> > > those benefits may be or whether or not you agree with
> > me that they are
> > > indeed benefits, the commercial publishers are killing
> > us off. They will
> > > also soon be killing themselves off. So, I should
> > think that they would
> > > want to compromise on this deal somehow. After all, if
> > our libraries, to
> > > say
> > > nothing of Ministers of Education, MP's, the NIH, and a
> > whole host of
> > > universities and libraries are rebelling against them,
> > then they will lose
> > > too. No one else will buy their stuff!
> > >
> > > The commercial publishers should work more favorably
> > with us. Scientists
> > > will not go down in this battle, the commercial
> > publishers will. Science
> > > is
> > > too valuable to society and we (or our funders) can
> > merely change our
> > > publishing habits. The commercials cannot do a thing
> > without us. So they
> > > better help with this crises and not fight it, as they
> > are making many
> > > enemies at levels higher than working scientists. NIH,
> > as you now know,
> > > has
> > > moved to take publication out of the hands of
> > scientists to avoid the
> > > commercialization of the work they fund. If we were
> > dealing with soft
> > > drinks, you bet that the different purveyors would be
> > far more competitive
> > > and be offering us good deals. The commercials should
> > do the same for
> > > publication, electronic dispersal of our work, and the
> > cheapest prices to
> > > our
> > > libraries. But there is no competition. YET. Each
> > publisher invents a new
> > > journal or two in each field and everyone wants it, for
> > fear of missing
> > > out.
> > > Of course the commercials offer us editorships and
> > board memberships, and
> > > our
> > > deprived egos can't pass on these little tid-bits and
> > we accept (I can
> > > substitute I for we in the previous sentence). Stop
> > it. We must make
> > > change happen, if they continue to ignore us. In the
> > end, fewer and
> > > cheaper
> > > commercial journals might still provide a useful
> > service in many parts of
> > > science, but the continued increasing costs will not be
> > tolerated by the
> > > community at large. So they better change somehow.
> > We could help them
> > > do
> > > that.
> > >
> > > I'd love to hear from them.
> > >
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> "The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian religion." -
> George Washington
>
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--
---
ADDRESS: Dept. de Geologia/Unitat Paleontologia, Universitat Autònoma de
Barcelona, Campus,
Edifici Cs, 08193 Bellaterra (Cerdanyola del Vallès), Catalunya, SPAIN
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Tel xx34-93-581-1464/Fax -1263
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