paleonet Re: Re: Euthecodon from the Maastrichtian phosphates

["James Mahaffy" <Mahaffy@xxxxxxxxx>]

Wouldn't he have left field notes that would tell you where he was?  But I notice you are from Bristol where he taught so I assume you have checked for notes.

 

James Mahaffy (mahaffy@dordt.edu)          Phone: 712 722-6279
498 4th Ave NE
Biology Department                                     FAX :  712 722-6336
Dordt College, Sioux Center IA 51250-1697

>>> cogombra@hotmail.com 06/08/05 11:43 AM >>>

Thank you very much for your help.


A fossil specimen was collected by Prof. B. Savage. On its side it says that
was uncovered in Dhok Yakoob a little village near Uchhri. Dhok Yakoob is a
very common name in Pakistan.
In fact,  Multimaps says that Dhok Yakoob is or is in Duzab, Balochistan,
Pakistan away from Uchhri.

http://www.multimap.com/map/places.cgi?client=public&lang=&db=w3&overviewmap=&country=Pakistan&place=Dhok+Yakoob

I was suggested by Prof. Sahni to contact "the French group, Ginsburg
(?Paris) did subsequent work there!"

Please, I would appreciate if somebody could help us here in anyway!


Respectfully,

Xavier Panades I Blas
55, Marksbury Road
Bedminster
Bristol BS3 5JY
England (EC)

http://www.acs.bolton.ac.uk/~xp1pls/















From: Jason Head <head.jason@nmnh.si.edu>
To: "Xavier Panades I Blas" <cogombra@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Uchri, Dhok Yakoob Please, help
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 10:19:53 -0400

Then the egg is probably not from the Siwalik Group.




>Hi Jason
>
>Thank you for your email.
>
>Multimaps says that Dhok Yakoob is or is in Duzab, Balochistan, Pakistan
>
>http://www.multimap.com/map/places.cgi?client=public&lang=&db=w3&overviewmap=&country=Pakistan&place=Dhok+Yakoob
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Xavier Panades I Blas
>55, Marksbury Road
>Bedminster
>Bristol BS3 5JY
>England (EC)
>
>http://www.acs.bolton.ac.uk/~xp1pls/
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>From: Jason Head <head.jason@nmnh.si.edu>
>To: "Xavier Panades I Blas" <cogombra@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Uchri, Dhok Yakoob Please, help
>Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:51:26 -0400
>
>Xavier:
>
>The prefix "Dhok" is used to designate towns/villages.  So, Dhok Yakoob is
>the town near where the specimen was found.  But, I've never heard of it
>(Dhoks are often very small).   Try www.multimap.com.   Siwalik Group
>formations are not usually laterally continuous beyond tens of kilometers. 
>Compare the West et al. 1991 JVP Siwaliks from Nepal with the stratigraphy
>from Pakistan (look at the Badgley and Behrensmeyer edited volume in
>Palaeo3 from 1995).  If you can find Dhok Yakoob and place within the
>geological section then you can say for sure what formation it is in.  If
>you can roughly pinpoint the locality to close to the Salt Range on the
>Potwar Plateau (after checking that Paleo3 issue) then you can make an
>educated guess.  Otherwise, you're not going to be able to say much.
>
>Good luck



Respectfully,

Xavier Panades I Blas
55, Marksbury Road
Bedminster
Bristol BS3 5JY
England (EC)

http://www.acs.bolton.ac.uk/~xp1pls/















From: Jason Head <head.jason@nmnh.si.edu>
To: "Xavier Panades I Blas" <cogombra@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Uchri, Dhok Yakoob Please, help
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:51:26 -0400

Xavier:

The prefix "Dhok" is used to designate towns/villages.  So, Dhok Yakoob is
the town near where the specimen was found.  But, I've never heard of it
(Dhoks are often very small).   Try www.multimap.com.   Siwalik Group
formations are not usually laterally continuous beyond tens of kilometers. 
Compare the West et al. 1991 JVP Siwaliks from Nepal with the stratigraphy
from Pakistan (look at the Badgley and Behrensmeyer edited volume in Palaeo3
from 1995).  If you can find Dhok Yakoob and place within the geological
section then you can say for sure what formation it is in.  If you can
roughly pinpoint the locality to close to the Salt Range on the Potwar
Plateau (after checking that Paleo3 issue) then you can make an educated
guess.  Otherwise, you're not going to be able to say much.

Good luck




>Hi Jason,
>
>I am writing to you to confirm that the fossil crocodile egg after some
>research comes from Uchri (Dhok Yakoob). We are trying to figure out
>whether Dhok Yakoob is the locality where it was found or the name of the
>collector.
>Hence, as you said the Chinji Formation doesn't crop out in Uchri.
>
>Please, I would appreciate if you could confirm that Dhok Yakoob is a
>village near Uchri, and what formation crops out in Uchri.
>
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Xavier Panades I Blas
>55, Marksbury Road
>Bedminster
>Bristol BS3 5JY
>England (EC)
>
>http://www.acs.bolton.ac.uk/~xp1pls/
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>From: Jason Head <head.jason@nmnh.si.edu>
>To: "Xavier Panades I Blas" <cogombra@hotmail.com>
>CC: amarquez@bio.fsu.edu
>Subject: Re: Errors?
>Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:13:10 -0500
>
>Xavier:
>
>I decided not to contribute to your original paper for two reasons. First,
>I do not agree with the practice of naming egg-based taxa. The fossil
>record is already crowded with untestable taxonomic hypotheses, and ootaxa
>are extremely difficult to diagnose to generic or specific taxonomic
>levels.  Second, you could not provide any specific information on the
>geographic area where the egg was found, and the generalized geographic 
>information you provided is from a region where the Chinji Formation
>doesn't crop out (to my knowledge).
>      As for you points below: 1) there are several hundred Chinji
>Formation localities on the Potwar Plateau, and almost all are precisely
>mapped stratigraphically and geographically.  Adding a reference to an
>indeterminate locality in the formation will only bring confusion; 2) If I
>am reading this correctly, you are being circular.  You cannot say that the
>egg corresponds to Rhamphosuchus because it is large and use this
>correspondence say that large eggs equal large organisms.  Furthermore,
>Rhamphosuchus is represented by only a handful of specimens, and is not the
>only Siwalik crocodyloid. If you are going to use size as a taxonomic
>criterion, then you have to determine body size for Rhamphosuchus, for
>which there is very little data, and then determine the relationship
>between egg size and body size in crocodilians, for which there is limited
>data.  At best, you are speculating as to taxonomic affinities; 3) We
>already know that there are large crocodilians from the Potwar Plateau-
>they were some of the first fossils ever described from the Siwalik Group.
>     For all of these reasons, I cannot help you with your research, and
>hope you will seriously reconsider making any taxonomic assignment to the
>specimen beyond "Crocodyloidea indeterminate".
>
>Good luck
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Respectfully,

Xavier Panades I Blas
55, Marksbury Road
Bedminster
Bristol BS3 5JY
England (EC)

http://www.acs.bolton.ac.uk/~xp1pls/















From: "eric.buffetaut" <eric.buffetaut@wanadoo.fr>
To: "Xavier Panades I Blas" <cogombra@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Euthecodon from the Maastrichtian phosphates
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:52:43 +0200

Hi,

I've got them this time. One of them ("Morocco 21") is not very informative,
as it does not show the alveoli. The other one is more useful, but I do not
think it can support the occurrence of Euthecodon in the Maastrichtian
phosphates, because the alveolar rims are not as protruding as in
Euthecodon. Various long-snouted crocodilians can show this degree of
alveolar rim protrusion. In that particular case, it may be a dyrosaurid,
but that seems difficult to demonstrate on the basis of the available
material, which shows few diagnostic features.
I'm afraid it cannot be identified beyond "longirostrine crocodilian".

Best regards,

Eric

Eric BUFFETAUT
CNRS (UMR 5125)
16 cour du Liégat
75013 Paris
tél/phone: 01 45 84 81 45
e-mail: eric.buffetaut@wanadoo.fr
----- Original Message ----- From: "Xavier Panades I Blas"
<cogombra@hotmail.com>
To: <eric.buffetaut@wanadoo.fr>
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 12:40 PM
Subject: FW: Re: Euthecodon from the Maastrichtian phosphates


>
>Hi,
>
>I got temporatly A. P. CS and I recovered the pictures I am sending you!
>
>Please, confirm me that they reached you.
>
>
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Xavier Panades I Blas
>55, Marksbury Road
>Bedminster
>Bristol BS3 5JY
>England (EC)
>
>http://www.acs.bolton.ac.uk/~xp1pls/
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>From: chris brochu <cbrochu@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
>To: "Xavier Panades I Blas" <cogombra@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Euthecodon from the Maastrichtian phosphates
>Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 09:25:07 -0500
>
>>Hi Chris,
>>
>>I need help in this one.
>>
>>I am finishing a publication where I describe an African Euthecodon from
>>the Maastrichtian phosphates.
>>
>>The remains come from Morocco the area of Erfoud collected by a shepard
>>close friend of mine that dies recently. He brought it all the way back
>>from there for me.
>>
>>What are the phylogenetic implications of this fact?
>>
>>You welcome to collaborate and guide me a bit!
>>
>>Respectfully,
>
>
>
>I'd want to see what this material looks like before commenting further. If
>it's primarily jaw and snout material, I would be **very** careful about
>assigning it to Euthecodon - there are many crocodyliforms with
>well-developed alveolar processes.
>
>
>
>
>chris
>--
>Christopher A. Brochu
>Assistant Professor
>Department of Geoscience
>University of Iowa
>Iowa City, IA 52242
>
>phone: 319-353-1808
>fax: 319-335-1821
>email:  christopher-brochu@uiowa.edu
>
>