Re: paleonet Origin of birds, related question

[Peter Paul Smolka <smolka@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 Dinogeorge@aol.com wrote:

> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:42:10 EDT
> From: Dinogeorge@aol.com
> Reply-To: paleonet@nhm.ac.uk
> To: paleonet@nhm.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: paleonet Origin of birds
>
> In a message dated 4/11/2005 7:12:02 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> MccarrickAD@nswccd.navy.mil writes:
>
> >>If I understand it correctly, birds are thought to be closely  related
> (derived from or cousins with) the small theropod dinosaurs.  But  theropods are
> part of sauriscia, the "lizard hipped" clad.  Are ave hips  really like
> ornithicia ?  Is there a disconnect here, or are my  understanding of dinosaur clads
> incorrect.
>
> (Forgive my  spelling)
>
> Am I being to simple minded here ?<<
>
> I have it the other way round: birds evolved sometime during the Late
> Permian as a divergent group of feathered, arboreal prolacertiforms, and  all
> dinosaurs are giant, terrestrial descendants of various progressively  more modern
> forms from that lineage. I'm working on a book about this.
>
Additional question (dinosaurs are not my field, just out of curiosity):
>
Recent hominid findings on Celebes showed dwarfism.

This was, if I remember it correctly, attributed to, for example, lack
of competition.

Thus: Can we hypothize extreme competion during the Late Paleozoic
and Mesozoic among these "birds"?

(.... as extended cold temperatures are unlikely).

And if you work on a book about it:

Interesting side aspect, maybe you include it anyway:

Bill Hay in the last 5 or so years (presented for example on one
of the annual German ODP colloquia), showed that the salinity of
the oceans varied through time, also with GCM calculations.

Simplified rationale: The moles of salt, such as of the Messinian, the
Permian, had been dissolved before deposition (done quantitatively of
course).

Other parameters in equilibrium respectively.

Might there be a chapter on the atmospheric composition, relations to
for the O2 binding capacity in the blood of dinosaurs, gliding
abilities (increased/decreased depending on the air composition)
and the like?

As we do not have, if I didn t overlook a publication in the recent
time, a hard and proven pH proxy for the oceans (and CO2 as result
of it), all questions about atmospheric composition incl. assessing
solution-windows indirectly, I think, are permitted.

About Pearson and Palmer, about 2000, I know.

It might for you appear as a not-too important side aspect, which
you just know, you might think about one page; for others it
is interesting, such as more pages worth to read.

As bones are definitely not my field (= please apologize if for
vertebrate specialists it is basic knowledge):

Might the atmospheric composition influence the composition of bones
(e.g. trace elements to find?, comparable to for example teeth material
in Pleistocene hominids, e.g. places from where the migrated to the
oryktocoenosis?

Just a question for reasons of curiosity,

Peter


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Dr. Peter P. Smolka
University Muenster
Geological Institute
Corrensstr. 24
D-48149 Muenster

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